Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

I've been tossing this scenario in my head and can't figure out the best thing to do, so let me run this hypothetical past you...

Let's say we have another Katrina-like scenario where despite laws on the books, FEMA thugs bust down our doors to force us to move to "safety." We've all seen the post-Katrina videos of National Guard troops breaking down doors and confiscating guns even in dry areas after Katrina, just because they could.

So let's say that the thugs come knocking at my door, and of course I have all my guns and ammo concealed safely off-site, with only one carry piece on the premises just so I only lose one gun if they come for my guns. So they break down the door, demand my guns, and when I tell them I don't have any, they proceed to haul me away because they can...so do I keep all of my guns on the premises in case the jackboots come knocking so my family and I can defend ourselves but possibly be outgunned? Do I tell them I don't have any guns and risk being whisked away to a "safe" place to "protect" me? Or is there some other option? Would they rather deport people to camps, or would they rather just disarm citizens and leave them in their homes? Help me think through this...

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Depends on the width of the situation.

Small, localized events like Katrina.....could have the same results as there.

Large, nationwide event....there will be no FEMA, national guard or cops imported from out of state to do the job the local abandoned.....because all of them will be home taking care of their own the same way the locals did in Katrina. Prepare for a free fire situation against anyone that plans to take anything you have.

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

i can see a future where the american public will willingly hand in their guns, in trade for food

food shortages and/or near starvation will be the stratagy/tactic used by TPTB to get america's guns

of course, this will be the survivors of the chaos in the cities

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Well, hell,

This is probably way to much,

Even though just a wiki quickie,

But here it is anyway:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_...s_Constitution


On a practical basis, I would think about "a well regulated neighborhood."


scyth

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Unfortunately, I can imagine this happening as well...

I've been urging "well regulated neighborhoods" for a long time myself. No need to worry about us, just don't try to take our stuff...

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Is it better to lose one gun that they can find, or be pumped full of lead if I try to defend myself against a team that has a lot more firepower than I do? I understand where you're coming from, I'm just trying to figure out the most reasonable response to jackboots if they have more firepower than me and don't give a rip about the law and the Constitution.

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

If someone wants my gun, at least one of us has to die. That's the rule.

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

"[H]ead shots, head shots ... Kill the sons of bitches ... Shoot twice to the belly and if that does not work, shoot to the groin area. Arm yourself. Get instructed in how to shoot straight."

G. Gordon Liddy



“At what exact point, then, should one resist? When one’s belt is taken away? When one is ordered to face into a corner? When one crosses the threshold of one’s home?”

"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?...The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst; the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!"

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago, 1918-1956


1776

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

If you go to the camp, you are at their mercy. The people who don't give a rip about the constitution and will break down the doors of citizens to take their guns, you will be at THEIR MERCY.

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Takeing Guns is the last step.

Stopping the first steps is the trick.

Iraqys have fully auto AKs in there house but they were wisked away by Evil Gov Tyrants and killed afer being tortured. Its not the Guns that will keep you safe. Its the Will of the Government you reside under.

The Governments will is bent by its people so keep bending.

E-A

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Congress will sign this treaty before they come for your guns and you will already be classified as a criminal. Your neighbors will revere them for keeping us all safe... Read it and weep!

INTER-AMERICAN CONVENTION AGAINST THE ILLICIT MANUFACTURING OF AND TRAFFICKING IN FIREARMS, AMMUNITION, EXPLOSIVES, AND OTHER RELATED MATERIALS

http://www.oas.org/juridico/English/treaties/a-63.html

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

There are two parts to your question. One: is it better to keep only one gun in the house; and Two: do you go with them? If they only want your guns but don't want you to go anywhere, then giving them the J-frame revolver really doesn't matter much. You still have time to do what you should have done earlier, which is to get the rifle and mobilize to keep your freedom. Holing up at home is suicide. If, however, they want you to go with them - then it's too late, you're going to lose your freedom and you should assume that however bad the odds, you need to shoot your way out of it because you have nothing to lose. When things get to part two (taking citizens with them), the only patriotic thing to do is to kill them from a distance with your rifle and speed away on your dirt bike. Repeat whenever possible...

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

to some extent, for example drug SWAT teams kicking down doors at the wrong addresses & roughing up completely innocent people - in some cases killing them because they did what was normal in a home invasion, brandished a weapon.

given that stuff like that has already happened (cops invade wrong home & kick ass anyway), how are these for ideas -

* appear to have no weapons.
* basically, blend in, be plain vanilla, joe 6-pack. a really smelly diaper bucket near the front door might hasten their departure.
* a bag of Krispy Kreme donuts near the front door, so you can offer them donuts & coffee while they're waiting for whatever they're waiting for. they will probably decline. the objective being to use your Jedi mind skills to give them this overwhelming sense of domestic-ness, so that your home, although messy, is obviously not a threat.

i think the hard part is when you have a real obnoxious cop, e.g. a cop that came to my door about a year ago and seemed offended when i asked not to shine a bright flashlight right in my face ... it's important to stay mellow in that situation because some cops are f'ing trigger happy and are walking examples of "abuse of power."

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

I've given this a bit of thought and it seems reasonable to me that since the Feds already know you are a firearms owner, to have a throw-away weapon to give them.

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/

Still usable, but cheap enough to not make you cry when they take it.

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Wow! Those firearms at hi-point are very inexpensive. Not much in the way of magazine capacity but assuming they are reliable and shoot straight, they don't look bad at all.

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Not a bad idea!

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

They're certainly not top of the line, but they'll do the job in a pinch. You can buy one, or two, or more, and stash them around the house as backup guns, and "hand-over-to-the-Federal-regime-goons-who-caught-you-off-guard-and-got-inside-your-house" firearms. You should be able to pick up 5 of them for under a $1000. Most reports indicate they are accurate and reliable relative to their price.

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

First of all, Act like nobody is home. If they knock, and you don't answer the door, and the deadbolt is locked, chances are they will just move on to the next house figuring you left. If they see you, that one is out the window though.

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Assumptions can be dangerous. Hi-Point's 9mm carbine is a great weapon - reliable/cheap/accurate.

Their pistols, however, are steaming piles of dung. Very poor reliability - great if you want a cheap/bulky weapon you can't trust.

In a recent CCW refresher course I took, the instructor was talking about having badmouthed Hi-Point pistols to the students in his class. AFTER the fact, he learned that several of the students were salesmen for Hi-Point. Not surprisingly, NONE of the three used their company's pistols in class - they all used SIG/Glock/Other makers' handguns.

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Which brings us to the question, Where can we hide our firearms in our homes where they will not be found? Personally, I don't think that is possible.

Initially, I thought, if I hide my firearms or ammo under or around the cast iron bath tub where metal detectors might be confused, then I'll be safe. Then, I thought, they'll have thought of that!

Revolver or rifle in the attic? Who would have thought of that? They would have.

So, we're back to giving them up or fighting to keep them.

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Your instructor was dishing out a steaming pile of dung. Hi-Points are not SIG-Sauers or Glocks. No one is alleging that. But to say they're shit is simply not supported by plenty of experience.

They're ugly (in my perception), they're not polished (in manufacturing or design), and I wouldn't carry one as a primary, but for the purpose of affordable self-defense (not everyone can afford a Kimber, etc.) or cheapo ready-access or decoy weapons, they're great. 99.8% of the time they'll do what they need to do.

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

They can be hid just about ANYWHERE in the house.

Metal Detectors? Are you kidding? Do you live in a mud hut? Because in my house metal detectors will ding at every nail, screw, wire, gas pipe, phone line, cable TV lines, etc. Good luck with the metal detector.

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Depends on where you live. Summer time here in south florida, I dont care how bad the tyranny gets, the Jack Boots arent going to be crawling around in many attics :P

But there are MILLIONS of places, as another said, to hide stuff in your house. Put them in the walls next to studs or pipes if you must. You can cout out the space under kitchen and bathroom cabinents and seal em back up. Break em down and put various parts in various places.

Handguns fit nicley in computer cases(if you dont have a super small computer). Tape em down good so they dont rattle if the case is moved. A/C ducts is another place. Of course there is always digging a whole 200 feet from your house and burying them(Sealed in a bag or some such)

I suppose if they are truly, truly, truly determined and spend enough time they may find them, but youll just have to be inventive.

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

I've also worried about trying to defend my home when I'm outgunned, out-manned, etc.

But if they're coming door to door to get the guns. Chances are you will no be the first home they go to. So you'll probably hear about this happening before they get to your house. So you can be ready.

Think of it this way. Let's say there are 15 of them, heavily armed. They knock on some guys house. He's only able to take out 2 of them before they kill him. They go to the next house. He takes out 2 of them before they kill him. By the 3rd house, they're doing the math. If everyone were to stand up, this would only happen a few times before they realized they weren't getting paid enough for this. They are ONLY do it because they believe they are superior in weapons, tactics, and force. When they think they are not, they will stop.

Are you willing to be one of the first 3 homes?

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

They arent going to keep going door to door after getting shot at. Theyll call in back up, secure the whole area, and call in HEAVY reinforcments. Its not like theyll say "Hey, we lost Jim and Steve, but we still need to get these knock and talks done TODAY!" :wink:

In that case, you better know your neighbors real well, so when the first house opens fire THEY get the reinforcments before the jack boots do.

Start getting some empty sand bags ready(or full, your choice) if you feel this will happen. Sands bags are suprisingly good at stopping bullets, cinder blocks and dry wall...not so much.

Concrete mix is a good substitute and can block of doors/windows/acess points quite well.

Hopefully youre right in that if they take such heavy losses initialy, the others will realize its a loosing battle. But then again, these are pigs, not smart men, and power trips are not often culled in these cases, but enhanced.

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Perhaps for you, but ask anyone already accepting unemployment or welfare and you'll find out that they're already on their knees and quite content with the position. It's all about how you boil a frog.

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

In a Katrina-like situation, do they bother with the houses where no one answers the door? I can't imagine they have the manpower to break into every abandoned home.

I'd say you lock up your place, shut the power/gas off, use minimal water (let some water trickle into a sink for your drinking or whatever - if they look at your usage they'll figure the toilet leaks). I'd imagine if they were generating a list of non-empty houses, they'd look at the utility usage.

You could always make the main room look abandoned and looted and leave the curtains open enough so they can see.

Back when I was young I made deliveries and had to carry a lot of cash with me (15k some days through the shitty part of the cities.) I never had it stolen in over 2 years (which was excellent... most drivers were robbed every few months.) What I did was leave 1 week's worth of newspapers and fast-food trash all over the passenger seat, used kleenex all over the dash, half-full cups in the cup holders and everywhere else, then crumped pop cans in any space left over. I topped it off with a stained t-shirt draped across the back of the driver seat (it was clean but it looked disgusting). The money was hidden in a crumpled hamburger box, within the fast-food paper bag, mixed in with the rest of the garbage. I left the doors unlocked with the windows open as long as it wasn't raining.

I came back to the truck once and the glove box had been broken into, but overall the company was pleased because usually drivers would come back to find a window broken or damage done to the locks and the money missing.

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Let me add one dynamic to the discussion to see if anything changes.

Does having kids affect your decisions on how to react?

IMO, I will have to lay under the radar for as long as possible without getting into a firefight for the sake of my kids safety and well being. If single and childless, not a problem.....vote from the rooftops. But with kids, I think much more tact will be required.

Bottom line is that nobody is going to haul off anyone in my household. I think I may just have to be more tactfull and patient.

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?...The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst; the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!"

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Put one of these in your front window. . . .

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...t02/NoGuns.jpg

Unless you live on 120 acres, I don't think there is anywhere in or around your home where you could hide any amount of guns or ammo. The best solution is to have them off-site, which add a whole other set of problems such as "how do I get to my guns if I need them?" or "Are they safe from being stolen if they are off-site?" With ground radar/sonar you can't even bury them. Though that still may be the best choice if your just trying to protect yourself against the random seizure scenario. But if they come with a warrant and 30 guys, there is no place you can hide anything unless you have access to a trans-dimensional transportation device.

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Which is why EVERY Patriot MUST ........I repeat MUST ..... have at least one quality sniper rifle capable of snuffing out (HVT's) High Value Targets at a good distance.

The maxim remains the same.

Strike the Shepard(or even those who APPEAR to be the shepard) and the sheep will scatter.

One well-placed round can turn the tide of a battle.........or even The War.

T

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

+1000 yds

http://www.dickkramer.com/assets/ima...Kill450pwm.jpg

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

If I thought people were going door-to-door and were going to come and haul off my family to prison, I'd probably boobytrap all the empty houses on the street.

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

TA is right on this one. Look at any account of LEO's in gun battles with people who know what they are doing. Watch them on the news calling the people who wear body armor and full auto rifles cowards, despite the fact they themselves use both.

They were really throwing it out there recently when the Philly man shot the three or 4 cops and was wearing body armor. "Oh, hes such a coward, he was wearing armor." "Oh, he was to chicken to attack us like a man, he ambushed our guys instead of standing and fighting."

Plan Smart and Fight Smart but never fight 'fair' :wink:

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

.................

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Why do you need guns if all you're going to do is hide them when a threat comes?

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

This thread (and my morning coffee) have whipped up the ol' brain cells.

Gun prohibition is in process now, has been for a long time.

Lets say you have a small force (police) and a large force (citizens).

In a direct conflict, the side with the most firepower wins. That means the small force needs to fight with an underpowered unorganized citizenry.

If you go door to door killing, citizens will become organized. So you avoid direct confrontation, and attack supply lines.

Supply lines are your ability to purchase guns and ammo. Look for any excuse to make ownership illegal (or just confiscate and destroy as "policy") Caliber, rate of fire, caught jaywalking, anything.

Supplies could also be your ability to manufacture guns. Talk up right wing extremism and make crazy claims. It isolates those with knowledge, and immobilizes their potential allies.

I look at the primitive weaponry available and its clear that gun technology has been stagnant a long time. The 1911 - doesn't that name come from the year 1911? That's almost 100 years old, and not much different than the state of the art.

It's improbable that weapons tech would have had this slow a curve.

Du muss hammer oder anvil sein. We've been the anvil too long.

Re: Gun confiscation scenario...help me think through this
 

Safety in numbers.

Fort up.